What do you say when somebody you think you should be able to trust feeds your child a religion they know is unwelcome? My son's grandmother did that tonight, while watching him. She taught him "When you're happy and you know it clap your hands" with an added "Amen!" between verses. I told him, in her presence, "you're a Heathen boy. Heathen boys don't say amen." She had the nerve to laugh. She doesn't take seriously any religion other than her own. She has laughed before. She will never see my son again unless she comes to me and admits she was wrong and apologizes. Of course, she won't do that. She won't think she's done anything wrong. There is no crime, after all, for those who have Christ. The woman lives by that credo.
It's a shame, really, that people cannot show that modicum of respect for the beliefs of others that a functioning society requires. I can't put into words how angry and disappointed I am. It's simply not possible. But again, it demonstrates to me the degree to which the so-called "Religious Right" feels it's ideology trumps all else. They expect as a matter of course that you won't criticize their beliefs or the myths and lies they've built up around their own religion and those of others, but they will not extend the same courtesy. When you have sole possession of the "Truth" I suppose it's not necessary.
It's time to sit down and begin work on my piece about how to teach a child about Christianity. That will have to be done hand in hand with teaching him about the religion of his ancestors. Hopefully, she didn't go beyond the "amen's" but this is not the first time she has done something like this, nor is it even the worst thing she has threatened (a couple of years ago, for example, claiming the right to "anoint" or even "baptize" him in the name of Christ. Either way, I won't trust him to her care again.
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3 months ago
19 comments:
You did the right thing, Hrafnkell. My problem is similar, though not totally--my sister and brother-in-law both are very anti-religion (my sister is almost militant about it).
I used to have to take some snark and (from my sister) no small amount of ridicule about my being "religious" until I finally said "Sis, I'm not trying to force my belief system on you like I did when I suspended my higher thought processes and hung out with Fundies. You're a free woman, and I don't think ill of you and I respect your choices. I'd like a little respect in return, if you don't mind." So she shut up.
My brother-in-law is cool, especially after I told him "The Aesir and Vanir are my friends and my kin. They're not my nursemaids, and they're not going to ship me off to Muspelheim if I do something wrong." But my sister? I dunno yet--but I can only imagine the fun that will ensue when my nephew asks me about my hammer and I start explaining to him about the Shining Ones.
Good story. My wife's mother, to her credit, has come a very long way toward understanding how our Heathen family goes about things. Good thing, too, since she lived with us for 2.5 years and is likely to return to our household again, permanently, in a year or two. Early on, when we explained to her that we're not a Sheeple household, she said "You mean you're teaching your children to worship false gods?!?" that one almost got her kicked out of the house. She has since changed her tune (funny what people will do to keep a roof over their heads, isn't it). And once, I took my son with me to a clock repair guy's shop, and while we were there the stupid butt-munch actually tried to tell my son that he had to believe in Jesus and that only the Sheep God was good and right and blah blah blah. Owing this man absolutley no respect at all, I interrupted him to tell my son that the Sheep God didn't exist, that Jesus was a story made up by very bad men, and that the people who told him he was sinful and bad and needed saving were lying and trying to make a fool of him. Clock repair guy swallowed his damned tongue and turned purple. It's moments like those when I smile and remember that I tower over other people [I usually try, politely, to keep that aspect of my persona from manifesting, but with Sheeple wipes like this guy I let the Berserker Rage surface just a little bit]. Sheeple deserve to be bludgeoned with the distaff side of the Golden Rule: expect to be treated the way you treat others - and their beliefs.
Hrafnkell,
I'd like to add one of my own unfortunate experiences to your comments page.
We used to have Catholic neighbours once. Fundamentalists to the core. I attended a Catholic Convent school and at the time wasn't cool to the Christian faith like I'm now. My mother on the other hand has always been a Hindu polytheist and was brought up to love and respect the gods.
One day she comes home enraged and tells me that the neighbours had a laugh at the Hindu pantheon in her presence. It was meant to be an intentional rebuke of Hinduism since they knew of her religious nature. They laughed at the many gods that we have and my mother's retorts were drowned by louder, merciless attacks from them, in favour of the Nazarene ofcourse.
Even though at the time I was not yet keen about my faith, the stoking of hatred by the Catholic couple, had sunk in deep and hurt me.
I'm not one for stopping monotheists in the middle of the road and asking for an account of their religious irrationalism, so I don't understand why polys must expect blows for no reason. I often look back at the incident and obsess over a possible reply I could have thrown at the couple. There are loads of them, now that I am better informed about Christianity after my initiation into Hellenism.
If a polytheist can face ridicule in a nation with a polytheistic majority, I can understand what it must be like for polytheists in a country where some people are smarmy about a non-existent deity.
Acid Queen, thank you. Yes, I get asked about my hammer a lot. Usually they think it's a broken cross, which is a hoot. Christians tend to be completely uninformed about Paganism and are so hung up on their own beliefs they could give a rat's ass about informing themselves. Devin's grandma, for instance, had some intolerance primer thru her Church or something and thinks she's completely informed on all religions now. The funny thing is, she is working with some ministry group "helping" immigrants who want to turn apostate and become sheeple and she pretends to be very well informed about cultural differences, even though she demonstrates no capacity for respecting the opinions, feelings, or belief's of others.
Glad to hear your brother-in-law is cool, at least, and luck with the hammer!
Jól, that's just awful, but not surprising. Devin's grandmother laughs whenever the gods are mentioned or an opinion is voiced that goes against her own deeply ingrained and intolerant beliefs. One of those "whatever!" laughs.
It's incredible though that a stranger, a repair guy, who depends on his customers' good opinion of him, would stoop to such a low attempt to push his beliefs on others. Good for you in telling him off! It must have been one of those priceless Kodak moments.
I agree completely with your opinion regarding the golden rule and bludgeoning!!!!
Indrani, that's another perfectly awful example of what I'm talking about. We could get together enough episodes to write a book. It's terrible the way these people behave. And in a polytheistic country even worse, but you can see why these assholes got themselves arrested, beaten and sometimes killed during the Pagan era. And then they act like these criminals are martyrs. It's like calling a bankrobber the good guy and the guy who shot him the bad guy. Complete reversal of every thing that is right and natural. But then, all of Christianity is that way - it turns nature and Reason on their heads.
You know, my parents went through (kind of) the same thing with my Aunt. She came to live with us when I was in high school and had a habit of pushing her radical beliefs on us...I mean, my parents forced us into church every week, anyway. I guess she felt it needed to be drilled into the sides of our heads, every waking moment of the day.
The fact is, once you state your wishes to ANYONE, they should be respected. I don't care what relation you are to the person in question. The title "Grandmother" doesn't give any sort of "divine right" nor does it give you the authority to try and veto what any parent has taught their child.
Shame on her.
I applaud your efforts to keep your child safe and secure in his budding spirituality. Give him a firm grounding in his own religious tradition, and tell him about the Galilean when he's older.
The Oracle of Hekate said that the Galilean was a virtuous and pious man who joined the Gods on Olympos at his death, but that the Christians improperly deceived themselves into worshiping him rather than respecting some of the things he had to say. I haven't read enough of the Bible (and what I have read is OT) to adequately comment on this, but some of the Gnostic things I've read seem fairly tame.
One of the things that bothers me the most, Uncensored, is that she claims she won't compromise her principles. Compromise her principles? Nobody is asking her to deny Christ, for crying out loud. She can't sing a secular children's song without adding "amen!' to the lyrics?
She claims she doesn't know many secular kids songs so she sings what she knows. But that doesn't excuse adding "amen!" to a song that never had it. And now I find out she's been doing this regularly.
I feel horrible that I let my son be exposed to this. The reason they do what they do is to put concepts into the minds of the children to prepare them for what they'll be taught later. There is no secret here as to method or reason. And if you accuse them of brainwashing (as I do) they say, "Yes! We do admit to wanting to wash the brain!"
I could vomit.
Annyikha, thank you. Yes, and Porphyry actually claimed Jesus was a divine man and accorded him a place on the "pyramid". His teachings were so subversive to Christianity, by allowing Christians a legitimate place within Paganism that the Church gave special attention to his writings. His work against the Christians survives only in fragments. Think of the bloodshed of centuries that would have been saved!
Over the past couple of years, since I got interested in Bart Ehrman's writings, I've read the Gnostic literature (the Nag Hammadi library) and I've no problem with such Christians. We're conditioned to think that all Christians were one big monolithic block of believers. But as Ehrman points out, the proto-orthodox were a small but aggressive group. Helmut Koester notes that they were a minority and that most Christians before the Nicene Creed were what would today be called "heretics". The Gnostics, for one, weren't really interested in proselytizing but were happy in their secret knowledge. The Pagan world could have survived a Gnostic church and Pope.
Bring them back, I say!
I can't tell you how angry your post makes me feel. What an outrage! Having once been a Christian, I know exactly the mindset that woman had. She feels her duty is to introduce Christ to everyone no matter how she does it. It burns me up how they scream intolerance and demand apologies if someone says something negative about Jesus but they can call all our gods demons and put up their hands and go, "Hey, religious freedom." They want the laws to apply to them and ONLY them. OOOOHH, seriously. I need a beer to calm down. I feel for you, H.
My rule of thumb is this: I don't have to respect other people's beliefs...I respect people and their right to hold those beliefs.
On a tangent, I had a Catholic tell me today that UFO's are demons luring people ever further from the true fold and god. RIIIIIIIIIGHT.
(Sorry for twice-posting, I don't seem capable of producing coherent language today.)
I don't have children yet, but gods help the unsuspecting someone that would try to get my spawn to worship a known (mass) child murderer and a sexual abuser.
I tend to point out to these people a few of their god's characteristics and how their ideological sisters and brothers enslaved my people. Gives them a nice pause. And they have the guts call me an immoral blasphemer..
I only worry that I have to start censoring myself a little when I'll have kidlets in earshot.
Granamyr, I used to be a Christian too though not the kind who felt the need to convert anyone. But yes, I can understand why she feels that way. Her superstition dictates that she must. But it infuriates me nevertheless, especially when I come fact to face with it as opposed to intellectually.
UFOs? LOL A Catholic said this? I should go to the Catholic Answers Forum and put this question to them. What a riot!
Eeva, thank you for commenting, and no problem. I've double-posted myself, even on my own blog. Fortunately, I think I catch it before most people see.
I think you hit the nail directly on the head with your references to the deity of this pernicious superstition. The evidence is all there if they'd bother to read the book they're always referring the rest of us to.
Self-censorship? You may feel differently when you do have kids. If your temperature rises thinking about it, know that it will have twice the effect (at least) that you imagine it will have :)
Hrafnkell, I'm sorry you and your lil' one were so deeply betrayed. Religion should not divide a family, but it sounds like she's holding Christianity up like a shield, blocking you and your son, though this probably isn't her intent. Trust ought to be part of a family's footing. I hope she soon opens her eyes to the damage her actions can do, and that she works to gain back your trust. This for the sake of each of you, especially for your son.
Chell, that is one thing that is not going to happen. She won't apologize or try to make amends because she does not believe she did anything wrong. She says it would sacrifice her principles. The woman is insane. But then, arguably, anyone with those kinds of beliefs could be considered insane, I think.
I know this is an old post but I feel I need to repond. Happily, I will never need to worry about this from my own parents, neither of whom have ever been christians (in fact my dad rather delights in confusing those that try to convert him), but my boyfriend's mother is a devoted Catholic. She knows that I'm a pagan and pretty much just leaves me alone but I worry about what she would do if I we to ever have shildren with this man. She seems to think my religion is some sort of silly hobby.
And some people can't even get that repect from thier own parents. When my best friend told her family that she wouldn't be going to church with them because she was pagan, I was there. Her mom cried and her dad preached at her for twenty minutes. Later that week, he had thier pastor give her a call to try to talk her out of it. Her mom still sends her wierd little e-mails about God.
I cannot understand these people. As Emerson said, of a frightful consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds.
Thanks for commenting, Ulfrun. I don't mind going back to revisit old posts. I really think what happens is that when people leave the cult, it threatens their own belief. That terrifies them.
Some might actually think you'd just sold your soul to the devil but I've noticed this response even from church people you barely know. They may not have spoken to you in years but if you leave, they come out of the woodwork and try to convince you to come back. It threatens group cohesion. Especially if you're happy and successful. Because that should be impossible.
When you prove to them that you can do it and god doesn't strike you dead or something, and worse yet, you're happy, it threatens their entire belief structure.
My oldest son is an atheist. Sure, I'd rather he be a Heathen like me but I'm not going to feel any less for him or about him that I would otherwise. He's my son. Why would I attack him for his religion or lack of religion? So yeah, this is a creepy cult and the world would be well rid of it.